Ep 22: Life In Denmark For An Author, And Expat Mom, Lindsay Kellar-Madsen
Today I have a very special person. She was my first interview when I first started this podcast back in October. I didn’t have the equipment or this radio show, but I wanted to make a big announcement about my podcast to my friends and family. At the same time, I met this amazing woman that has 4 kids under 5 years old. And to top it off, 2 of them are twins and wrote a book during her maternity leave.
She is an international mom from Canada living in Denmark. What fascinated me about her was not only that she was living abroad with her kids and family BUT that she wrote a book, raised money to publish it, and launched it all in a matter of months WHILE having her twins at home and taking care of her 2 older ones.
I consider her a superwoman that can get things done!!!
Let me introduce you all to Lindsay Kellar Madsen. an incredible super mom, author, wife, and international mom living in Denmark.
For more information on Lindsay and her book. Check out her pages
Instagram @the.madsen.littles
Facebook page @Life & Love as Mama
For the E-book or ordering The Lovely Haze of Baby Days click here
And if you have any questions or comments, please visit my website My Kids Think I'm Cool, BUT... or drop by my Facebook Page and send me a message!
If you would like the show notes and transcribe of the episode See Blow:
Jackie: Hi. Hello, Ola and hallo! Welcome to My Kids Think I'm Cool, But... podcast! A podcast about getting knocked up in a foreign country, families living abroad and raising children in a different culture all while trying to keep your cool and not lose your shit. I'm your host, Jackie an American Filipino mom living in Denmark and my kids think I'm cool, but...
I told my daughter that McDonald's was closed, uh, last week. Um, and McDonald's, they're actually giving out My Little Pony toys. So she's been obsessed over McDonald's and she's been wanting it every day. So I've been telling her that it's closed or on lockdown because of the, uh, Corona and COVID situation. Um, if you are listening, Camilla. Thank you for that tip because you're the one that actually gave me that tip for, for, uh, telling my daughter that, um, if you don't want them to go there, just tell them it's closed.
Do you guys have a ”but” with your kids, let me know and message me. I would love to know about it and laugh, and also get some tips from you guys on what to do when situations get like that. So now let's get to the episode. First of all, thank you so much for coming back to listen to My Kids Think I'm Cool, But podcast.
Today, I have a very special person. She was actually my very first interview. When I started this podcast back in October, I didn't have all the equipment or even this radio show at the time. So I used Facebook to announce about my podcast, to my friends and family. And at the same time I wanted to interview another international mom that was living in Denmark and introduce her and what she has been up to. And when I met her, she is so amazing. She was about to publish a book. She was funding it and also had four kids under four. And to top it off, two of them are twins and she wrote this book during her maternity leave and with her twins home and also taking care of two other kids. So that is so amazing and she's a supermom. She is from Canada, living in Denmark now, and now let's get to her and see an update on the book because we did do it in October and she was in the middle of her Kickstarter because she wanted to self-publish and Kickstarter helped her basically kickstart the whole publishing.
So let's get into it. Hi Lindsay, and thank you for being here.
Lindsay: Thank you for having me.
Jackie: I had to shut up because I just, I can keep going and talking. So before we jump into your book and how... since October till now and how that whole process went, I wanted to talk to you about you and your life here in Denmark, because not a lot of people probably heard of that introduction we did on my Facebook because we did introduce my podcast and also introduce about your Kickstarter movement because I wanted to help you get this book published. I'm really happy that it did, but let's talk about your family, you and why you're here in Denmark. So the famous question, why are you in Denmark?
Lindsay: Yeah, so I know that a lot of your, a lot of your guests are here because of love and because they, they married a Dane and I am married to a Dane as well, but we actually met in England and have been moving around in Europe, chasing, you know, job opportunities and our education.
And when my daughter was born in Switzerland, we quickly realized that the family life and work-life balance that we wanted to have wasn't there. So we relocated to one of our homes here in Denmark.
Jackie: Was Denmark your first choice or were you trying to go either back to Canada? Or at another country?
Lindsay: I think at the time we were mostly considering Canada or Denmark, and it was really important to me to learn Danish because we knew that our family would be bilingual and it felt really important that I be here long enough to learn the language properly and be part of the family.
Jackie: What made you choose? I know your, your husband's here from Denmark, but what really made you choose? Yeah. Okay. Denmark is where we're going to raise our family and be, uh, be there besides Canada.
Lindsay: I think it's, it's always really tricky to say, when you make a decision, I had a job opportunity pop up during my maternity leave within the first couple of months and it was exactly the job I wanted to do here at the university of Southern Denmark and so it was just a perfect fit. We figured it would be a little more difficult for me to find a job here than for my husband. So while maybe normally people move home with their Danish partner and their job, we actually moved here with mine.
Jackie: So it actually worked out that you got a job and it was in a country where your husband's from. Your husband's in Jutland. So it's also close to where your husband's family is.
Lindsay: Yeah, our family and, friends, our network was based in Jutland, so it made sense that I work in Odense at the university and we were able to visit and see the people that we wanted to when we were living here,
Jackie: That's really great because usually when people move here, it's for their spouse and because their jobs. So that really worked out for you and in your favor.
Since you had your kids, two kids in Switzerland, and then here in Denmark, did you notice the difference in having kids in Denmark versus in Switzerland?
Lindsay: Yeah. So from a healthcare perspective, I would say both countries are really great. It is a private healthcare system in Switzerland, so you can say it's a little more luxurious because you pay for it. But I think having access to the public system here is really amazing, and I haven't felt like I wasn't taken care of here. So just from a having babies in this country perspective, I think it was different. And the one challenge that is definitely the same has been not speaking the native language when your babies are born and I'm sure you're, you know, the international community listening to this podcast will understand what that's like
Jackie: Yeah. Language mainly is the most difficult part for any international, and also for myself. I've been living here seven years, and having a job in English doesn't really help, but my family is Dane, so that does help, so they encourage more to speak Danish. How is your Danish, uh, going right now?
Lindsay: It's pretty good. I would say I'm quite fortunate that many of my colleagues are Danish. So I was actually surrounded by Danish at the work place and having had two rounds of maternity leave now and having a mother's group also gave me a really great opportunity to build on the classes that I took.
So it's pretty good. And certainly, I would say my six-year-old daughter is just starting to pass my level because she's growing up in the environment and learning the slang words and things you don't necessarily learn in a classroom.
Jackie: With me and my husband, when my husband and my daughter speak and they speak really fast and they start laughing I feel so out of loop, like what, what are you guys talking about? And then my husband's like: did you get that? Did you get that? I'm like, I feel so left out. Do you feel that way?
Lindsay: Not now, but this is exactly what I would say steamed my motivation to take classes every week and, because I was so afraid of these moments, and it does happen, there are times I don't catch things, so I absolutely still experience it. But I'd say for the most part, I follow what's going on.
Jackie: Yeah. Even you can understand it now, but can you participate in responding to a joke like you would in English when someone has a joke like, and then you can kind of further the conversation?
Lindsay: I think it depends who the conversation's with and how long the conversation has been going. So normally, you know, that first introductory part of the conversation is fine and I can handle all the conversations at the børnehavnor school, but I think there's like a natural complexity that comes with language as a conversation evolves, and then if you miss like a key piece of information, then you can kind of get lost.
It also takes a lot of focus, I think, to stay, you know, in this con- it's different than in your native language.
Jackie: Yeah.
Lindsay: So I think that's the hardest part is to stay so acutely focused on what's happening over half an hour or an hour conversation.
Jackie: Yeah. I definitely agree with that. And especially with my husband and my daughter speaking, if I'm not paying attention to what they're talking about and I'm just doing something else, I wouldn't get the joke or whatever they're talking because I'm not focused on what they're talking about, but versus in English, if they were speaking English, you can still do something else and understand what they're, you know, hop into the conversation because you just, it's just engraved in us that that's our language.
Lindsay: I think that's a little bit like peripheral vision. You're able to still... some level in your brain pick up the background chatter if it's in your native language, but if it's in a new language or a foreign language, I think that must take years.
Jackie: Yeah. You kind of just tune it out a little bit. It's not something you pay attention to. But when I do go home to the U.S. I notice more conversations around me, cause you just understand it, and it's such a shock. I'm like, whoa, I understand everyone around me. It's so, so weird. I don't know if that's how you feel when you go back to Canada.
Lindsay: I think the dead giveaway I've, I've been on the phone with somebody from home or if we've been home, my husband says... it always points out funny vocabulary that I use. It's like, "oh, is that, you use that word?" or like, "what does that word mean?". It's because I find I must refine the words I use when I'm overseas. And then when I'm on the phone with someone from home, then yeah. All the, my own slang words maybe come up.
Jackie: Yeah. And sometimes, I don't know if you've noticed it, you try to figure out a slang word in Danish that you'd usually use in English and it never exists.
Lindsay: Oh, yeah. Where you try and do like the, the literal translation of a phrase, or like a way of expressing something. An 'idiom', I think they're called. If you try and do that direct translation, I've definitely stumbled into some silly situations.
Jackie: Yeah. They're like, "what are you talking about?" "You don't say that?" He's like," no, you don't say that here".
Lindsay: No.
Jackie: But if you translate some idioms, that's in Danish into English,
Lindsay: It's just as silly,
Jackie: It's just as silly, it's like, okay.
Lindsay: Yeah. I think my, one of my favorites is the 'cow on the ice'. Have you heard that?
Jackie: No, I haven't heard the 'cow on the ice'.
Lindsay: Yeah. So it's if like, is some, is there something wrong, like, or I think it's that, it's a funny one. Look that one up. It's a good, 'is there a cow on the ice?'
Jackie: Oh, I wa- I kind of want to use that in English.
Lindsay: Why is there a cow on the ice and why would you talk about it?
Dave: It sounds like a drink.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Jackie: Yeah, yeah.
Dave: "Please. Thank you."
Lindsay: "I'll have a Cow on the Ice".
Dave: "Yeah, two of them, please".
Jackie: It would be a Kailua and milk together, or...
Lindsay: Yeah, maybe.
Jackie: Something like that. And then ice cream on top, something random.
Lindsay: This will be the, uh, this'll be your signature drink from the podcast.
Jackie: Yeah. 'Cow on the Ice', that's what we'll call it.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Jackie: Or we can call it 'Podcast, the Cow on the Ice'.
Lindsay: Exactly. But it really, for anyone who knows this one, it's great. There's a lot of good ones, to be honest,
Jackie: There is. There's, there's, someone posted on a Facebook group of all the idioms that's used in Denmark. And I'm like, these are so funny.
Lindsay: The other one that kills me is Nah like, the, just this word Nah, and they said all the different meanings in Danish of what that can mean. Like Nah, it can mean 'no', or it can mean like, 'oh no!'.
And like the... and there's like a list, I think, 15 different ways it can be interpreted. Exactly, anything. So how in the world do people learn this language?
Jackie: That's true. For me, what gets me is, something can, you could hear it the same, but it's completely different. It's like, it could be the same word, but just if you express it different. I know it's the same in English, but there's some things that just sound the same. It's like, that sounds exactly the same as the other one, but like, it's completely different.
Lindsay: Or that's what I said. And my husband says "no, it's not". And I say, "that is exactly what I said", but I think as I've learned the language more, I kind of learned to love it more because I think technically there's less words in the language, which means there's more wiggle room. You either have to learn to interpret the words that are being presented to you, And it feels more like this secret language they always talk about because to interpret it and understand it, it just takes time and practice and socialization, which I think is exciting. Even to just get a glimpse or a corner of that at this point in my Danish career.
Jackie: My Danish is getting better and better every year. And then it's funny is when my friends visit me, they're like, "Whoa, your Danish is good". I was like, "thank you". It's not really, like, if you really understood what I was saying, you, you'd be like, yeah, you're a foreigner.
Lindsay: Yeah, but that's also okay.
Jackie: Yeah. I am a foreigner.
Lindsay: I think it's really great if you make the effort to learn the language, then I think, yeah, I think that's very good stuff.
Jackie: And Danes, they're like, yeah, they, they encourage it. And then if they don't understand you, they just switch to English. It's not a problem.
Let's get, we got off subject on that.
Not all countries have these, what you call, these home nurses that come visit. And I found that when I first had my daughter here, I loved it because, you know, you get sent home with a kid, it's like, "okay, what do I do next"? And they have this home nurse that comes and helps, not helps you, but you know, see how you're doing, see how the baby's doing and just really help you. Is that something that is provided in Canada or Switzerland, these kinds of home nurses. Or...
Lindsay: I can't speak with certainty about Canada. I think normally people would go in to see their paediatrician or they would visit a nurse. I think the home visits are really amazing. I was especially grateful for it after I had twins, just because it was more important to monitor their weight gain and how breastfeeding was going. So under those circumstances, that was very, very helpful compared to Switzerland, we went into the doctor's office. So I would imagine maybe that's the more traditional model that people would bring their babies, which is a really big, it takes a lot of effort to prepare yourself when you're already a little overwhelmed perhaps with a baby. So, I mean, I'm certainly grateful for that system here in Denmark.
Jackie: So they didn't have that system in Switzerland where you had to go in and I was also grateful for it because when I first had my daughter, I couldn't even get up. Like, it was just so exhausting and that's probably the same for you getting two kids ready for børnehavn and then twins at the same time. And then they have a doctor's appointment just to get a checkup like, that must've been like a struggle in the beginning.
Now you've probably got it handled, like octopus arms. It's like it's all routine. And sometimes just, yeah. It goes off funk and...
Lindsay: I certainly need to give some credit to my husband. He's fully invested in helping with the family. So I think that's certainly a great mentality that men in this country have that they're invested in participating in parenting.
Jackie: Especially having four kids, and then with you and your career and his career too, it's nice to have a husband that is part of it and helping get through all this.
Lindsay: Yeah. Well, I mean, we're a team and I think it's kind of all hands on deck at this point.
Jackie: Yeah. While they're young.
This may be just rumors, but I heard in Switzerland, raising, having kids is super expensive. It's not like here in Denmark. Everything's private and childcare is not cheap. Is that true?
Lindsay: So I moved about six years ago, but I can give you an idea of what my impression was at that time. It was very expensive to put kids in the cheaper, which is like børnehaver, yeah, or daycare. And what's really interesting, I don't think it's changed, but maternity leave is only 14 weeks. Whereas the societal idea there is very pro breastfeeding. It's very supportive. So there's definitely a disconnect between if what everybody wants to do is to breastfeed and to be with their babies. I mean, 14 weeks isn't it. And a lot of women want to be home longer than that. So I think at the time, Again, it's a little dated information, but there was this really big gap between professional women who would give up their jobs to stay home for some years.
So there's like the highest number of highly educated women in all of Europe, I think at the time. So I found for me, I definitely felt a lot more pressure to make a decision of, do I want to build a family and be invested in that? Or do I want to work? And the idea of putting my 14 week old baby just wasn't going to work for us.
So, I mean, we made some decisions around that. And also, the cost. We imagine having more than one kid, it very quickly becomes not affordable to have kids and have two careers.
Jackie: Wow, I didn't, I thought Switzerland would have more of a one year because it is in EU
Lindsay: Maybe more consistent with Germany and Austria, which have I think two years. So no, they are set up a little differently.
Jackie: Well, I was just shocked by the daycare fees, but now I'm shocked about the maternity leave because my husband and I were thinking of moving before we had kids, we were thinking of moving to Switzerland because we both love that country and it has mountains and it's beautiful and everything. And now I'm so happy we didn't.
Lindsay: There's really great job opportunities there. It's a beautiful country it's safe and clean. I think if you have kids that are school age, and if you both have a career, I think it could be a great fit. If you have these preschool kids and you want to be at home for at least the say a year when they're little, you do have to kind of make a choice.
Jackie: And Denmark is one of the great countries to be and have little kids and have the work-life balance and have the choice to either stay home with the kids. So, yeah.
What are some of the challenges you face being an international mom in Denmark and in Switzerland. But you weren't that long in Switzerland, you became a mom, but in general, what is the challenges that you had to face?
Lindsay: Yeah, I think, I mean, in both places, I think navigating parent norms in that country versus maybe what your baseline was from where you come from. And then, when you're an international couple, then, you know, discovering what are the parent norms in your partner. I think that was all kind of an adventure for us figuring out, "Oh, is that how you would do it? Is that how, is that how it was"? A lot of those conversations.
Jackie: Culturally, you guys were raised differently, so you see the views are different on how to raise kids, but at the same time, you guys can take both what you like from how you were raised and then put it together.
Lindsay: Yeah. And I think that's definitely been our strategy, taking the pieces we like, and that suit us and our priorities best and piecing together this patchwork of parenting.
Jackie: Yeah. With the two cultures. Now, to get into that. Uh, how do you balance the cultures with your, uh, with your household, you know, with you being Canadian and then your husband being Dane, how do you keep the culture of Canada and have your kids know about it and know that there is a country outside of Denmark.
Lindsay: Until this last year, I mean, being an exception, we made, we traveled home every summer. My parents are also, so their grandparents are very involved and we do a lot of FaceTime. So some of those practical pieces, I think helped them understand that there's a country for our way, and we talk a lot about where we were born and where is that country, and I think as they get bigger, we'll talk more and more about the map and different cultures, and they'll probably start to identify, "oh, this our family works this way because mommy's Canadian. And I think. I know our family works this way because my dad he's Danish" and it'll just be a nice blend. Hopefully.
Jackie: Do you celebrate some of the holidays here in Denmark? Like Thanksgiving? I know you guys have Thanksgiving too. Do you try to celebrate it here or any other Canadian holidays that's important to you that you want your kids to learn?
Lindsay: There's definitely some traditions that we bring in, so... I've always really loved Halloween, for example, and that's not a thing here. So our kids get Halloween in the fall and also Festalavn around now. So, also Christmas time is another one in Canada. We would celebrate on the 25th with Santa and Dean threw it on the 24th. So I like to think our kids get the best of both worlds, we double up, we, we split the presence and depending on where we are, we kind of coordinate the celebrations around that. But I think they kind of get the both...
Jackie: They love, um, kids love it because they're like, okay, I have double the presents. It was our first time taking my daughter to, uh, Christmas in the U.S. last year. And she still remembers it to this day. He's like, "remember mommy, I woke up with lots of presents" because she's so used to opening the presents the night before, and then the Santa comes night before, but I told her when we're over there, it's like, "oh, Santa doesn't come the night before, Santa comes in the morning and drop off".
So actually knows the difference. She's like, "okay, when we're in Lola's house", which is 'grandma' in Tagalog. And when we're in Denmark, Santa comes in different times, like, "yep. That's how, that's how it works".
Lindsay: It's all very logical.
Jackie: Yeah. So I was like, see, it's different times that my daughter knows about time zones and then different countries, which is really fascinating for four years old.
But we also have a huge map in the middle of our dining room table where we all eat. We have wooden maps so she can see, like, how far my parents live from here. And she knows, "okay, when are we going to take a plane"? Because this is the longest we've been away from them is because of, uh, the Corona. And she's like, "when are we going on a plane, mommy"? I was like, "I don't know".
Lindsay: We're having the same conversation at home. The other thing I've seen some international families do and that I think we'll do as well is have multiple clocks. So that, you know, once your kids start being able to tell time, because right now my daughter asks, "oh, is Nana sleeping", or "is Nana awake"? And I think having that up will also give them, to sort of create more dimension to that other reality or other place we're living.
Jackie: Yeah. I love that she knows separate countries now, she's not so tied to Denmark. And I think it's so fascinating that she knows, I had, um, one of her friends' mom came up to me, and she's like, you know how we asked Mika my daughter, "oh, how do you get to your Lola's house"? And she explained it, like, "we get into a car, we go onto the plane, I play on the iPad, we get out of the plane, I get on the car, and then I'm at Lola's house and it's like, so amazing that they remember that for so young and they experienced that.
Lindsay: Yeah. I feel I'm feeling a little guilty for my son right now because she's four as well. But because I was pregnant in the summer of 2019 with the twins, we obviously didn't travel home, and then he does remember that Christmas, but because we normally go to the family cottage and have swimming lessons and it's in the forest, it's a really big impression on the kids and a good opportunity to learn English. She's kind of been cheated with the twin pregnancy and then being born in the, now with the pandemic. So I hope things resolve well enough that we can travel again this summer.
Jackie: I feel the same with my son. My daughter was traveling back and forth in the U.S. so many times. And then my son's like, not once. It's like, I feel so bad, but at the same time, he's so... walking and crazy and running So I'm kind of like, "okay, maybe it's not a good time". Cause my daughter was so still and sat next to me. My son is not that way.
Lindsay: No. I think, so the twins and I know your son are about 18 months or a little under, and I think that's the hardest time to travel personally, in the spectrum of kids.
Jackie: And you have two. I'm like complaining about one. Yeah. And then you traveled just as long as us too. So it's not that sure.
Lindsay: How many hours do you fly?
Jackie: 11.
Lindsay: Yeah, so we're eight.
Jackie: Okay. You're in. Yeah. You're in the West. I mean, East. I'm in the West, so it's 11 on a plane. I'm like 11 with a 18 months old that likes to climb and jump. I don't, people will probably like yell at me, "calm your baby down"!
Lindsay: I think people just feel so bad. Cause they know that kid doesn't want to watch TV and they just want to move at that age.
Jackie: My son has no interest in TV or iPad or anything digital. He wants to touch everything and put his fingers in everything she sees and put everything in his mouth. And I'm like, ah, during these times, I don't think I want him putting random seatbelts or chewing on the arm holder, or just putting his fingers in, not so nice places. So, I was like, I'm okay with him not traveling, I just feel bad because his sister got to travel so much. And now it's, and then also we can't travel that much back to the U.S. because my daughter starts school. That's like a double whammy for him. It's like he won't get to see the, his family as much as his sister did.
Lindsay: Hopefully when they're a little older and they have a stronger memory, you can make a bigger impression on them.
Jackie: Let's get into your book, and how I know when we first met, you were just in the stage with your Kickstarter and I thought it was so fascinating. And your, your book was, yeah, I just thought it was so great that you're launching a book. 'The Lovely Haze of Baby Days'. And I didn't get to read it at that time, and, but I got my copy because I supported on Kickstarter. I was so excited for it. Uh, what inspired you to write this book?
Lindsay: I mean, we started this conversation a little bit in the place I was at when I wrote it. So I, you know, had, uh, some challenges postpartum, just juggling, you know, the world with four kids, small kids. And I think having twins was also kind of a double whammy of two babies and just. Passionately pursuing that they will get everything that my singles got. And I think it put a lot of pressure on myself.
So around the time I was struggling, I had a number of friends admit that they'd had postpartum depression. And I just started feeling so frustrated by the pressure that we put on ourselves. And also when we look at social media, I think you create this idea that it should be really effortless. It should be really easy and it should always be beautiful and "why am I not happy every day? Every moment? Why does it feel so messy"? And I think working through some of the, um, those feelings I've always loved creative writing. And, you know, I just wrote this book as an outlet, so it began very much as a way for me to work through my own challenging times, navigating life with a lot of little kids and two babies.
And then when I started imagining it could be a book that created a conversation starter for other women. It could be something we might give at a baby shower or for mother's day or to a new mom that you suspect might be struggling and not engaging with her community. This idea that it could be a message of support from babies' bookshelf just really took hold of me. It sort of transformed from just a way for me to work through to something, to perhaps making a positive impact on maternal mental health and supporting other women in my community.
Jackie: That's really great that you created the book that helped yourself get through this, you know, hazy time, this time that you're like, okay, if I see everything falling apart, but at the same time, you want it to help other parents that is going through that with this book.
How did you find the time to write it?
Lindsay: Writing and some of the creative ideas came together probably while I was with my kids. And you know, the idea of the vision for it. I think it just became more and more clear as my maternity leave progressed. My husband was, took a three months paternity leave from last spring or in the summer.
So I just kind of planned out that I would nosedive into this project and treat it, not quite like a job, but like a passion project I was really excited about. So I took that time period and pursued something that meant so much to me personally, and that I also thought could have this positive impact I was imagining.
Jackie: Okay. So your husband took the time off and supported you, saw the passion and that's really great that he did that, and you just dived in and wrote it and then found an illustrator at the same time.
Lindsay: I had technically found her before. So it was definitely a like, while they slept during the evening thing until, I guess about the end of May or early June, when my husband full-time took over the girls in the day, and then I would spend, you know, maybe four, five hours working in the day, setting up Kickstarter, which I had, you know, in my mind, committed to it. That was a great vehicle for testing this idea in the market and, uh, would be a great way to launch the book into the world by essentially pre-ordering or allowing people to pre-order the book before it existed.
Jackie: And that really went well for you. I know when we were talking, it was just in the beginning stages. How was that for you with the support of your husband, your family, your friends back in Canada, and then here in Denmark and then just your friends in general?
Lindsay: I think I was a little, perhaps a little bit naive going into it, to be honest, because I thought I can do all of the planning and preparations. And then if the book was finished, then that was the biggest piece of the puzzle done. What I quickly realized is actually it's a very active and demanding marketing campaign for over a three week period.
So I had actually just taken over full time with the girls again. And a week later launched this campaign, which, you know, I probably should've timed it, either during my leave, or, I mean, secure a little bit of support, but it went really well, and I think the preparation certainly helped me work through that. So it was just a lot of late nights for those three weeks. Also, you know, navigating time zones. My audience was here in Denmark and then largely in North America, I think two thirds in the end, two thirds of the supporters came from North America, which meant being available and, you know, social media, responding to things.
Into the late hours, because that's when that audience is active and communicating. So it was a very busy time. Yeah, I'm really excited. It was 110% funded, so it's about 9,000 U.S. dollars to kick off this project and do the first print run of the book.
Jackie: That's really great. And now what was your goal? Uh, to raise?
Lindsay: It's in Danish kroner? So it's, I've been, you know, working between Canadian dollars and us dollars, but it's yeah, 110% funded. You can check out. I think anyone who looks at the site will see it in local currency.
Jackie: That's really, really great that you got supporters here in Denmark and in U.S. or North America. Just put it that, just put it as North America.
Did you sleep at all in these three weeks? Do you remember, or are you just a robot?
Lindsay: I think that though, you know, at the most challenging, like, demanding part, I was getting about five hours a night. So still, you know, I...
Jackie: Hey, that's really good.
Lindsay: Not bad. Right? So...
Dave: I might attest that you still look very fresh.
Lindsay: Yeah. But it was some months ago. So I've been able to recover a little bit. I think I certainly crashed afterwards, like after hitting my goal and then going past the, the end of it, there's like a recovery period where you realize you've been firing on all cylinders for three weeks.
Jackie: Yeah. And then after that, it's like, okay, now I have to really, uh, get the book printed and get that prepared. It's like, one week break and then all of a sudden, okay, thank you messages...
Lindsay: What's hilarious is I think within 48 hours you get a message from Kickstarter that says, "congratulations, you've funded your campaign. Now the work begins". Like I just remember seeing that and being, thinking, "what have I been doing the last three weeks"? Of course, it depends on what stage, so a lot of people, when they, if they use Kickstarter for publishing, that may be when they're finalizing the book and getting it printed, my book was actually finished before the campaign. So it absolutely shifted into production and shipping and navigating that, that part of the process.
Jackie: Yeah. That's so great. And you did that all, like in the matter of a period of a time. You did it, your goal was before Christmas. I remember that. I remember ordering, you're like, "I want to get this all out before Christmas". And I got, I got mine. I don't even remember when I got mine... but I remember I gave it to a friend that had a baby.
Lindsay: Yeah. So the timelines are a little bit skewed because depending on where people are affects when they are getting their book, because obviously Christmas orders were prioritized, and for European orders, I ship them directly from my house. So when the first print one was finished, which was in late November, and probably what a lot of people don't realize about this process is once it's printed, if it's printed overseas, on offset printers, like I've had it done, in a larger scale, then it goes on a boat on pallets, in like a freight ship. And they, you know, you get a certain number of weeks for how long that's going to take, but if it sits too long in the port before departure, being loaded, if it sits too long in, you know, the receiving port, if it sits before going through customs, like it took months longer than I thought it was going to, then you maybe are initially quoted from, uh, Shipping or production company. So I had my, I paid to have 500 books shipped directly to me here in Denmark, which I received quickly and was able to get out to the first batch of people here in Europe and for any of the larger orders for Christmas. But then I was waiting for, yeah, for the, most of the books actually to arrive in North America, which I thought I would be able to distribute.
I think my timeline was latest in January, but I mean, it was two days ago that they actually got into Amazon warehouses before, you know, all these processes I don't have control over. So my timelines were all very tight and I met them all. But then it's like the wiggle. What I've learned in doing this is that you probably need to create more forgiving timelines for the pieces you don't have control over and not necessarily take everything at what timeline is given to you at the beginning.
Jackie: So whenever you're like, okay, I'm going to send this out on this date, then this date, it all depends on delivery of the book and when it's going to get to your house, and then also the period of time delivering from your house too.
Lindsay: Which I was also really surprised. I think the pandemic also threw off a lot of normal timelines for regular shipping. So even things, I mean, I think it took like, six weeks for books and, to get to Canada that I sent...
Jackie: Six weeks?
Lindsay: Something like that. They're just arriving now, and I sent them in the first week of January. So it's, it's really crazy and I'm, you know, I'm just sending out the last, the last round of books that were, you know, for, depending on the reward and what is included in it in the U.S.
Jackie: Wow.
Lindsay: So it's crazy. It's really crazy. Some of the timelines that, you know, I have not been able to hit send from my warehouse in the U.S. until the last two days.
Jackie: Oh, wow. Because it hasn't been there.
Lindsay: It just hasn't been there. So I can't, I mean then, of course, what I ended up doing is just messaging people personally and saying, if you want, I'll send it from Denmark. I don't know how long that takes either because of the international shipping issues at the moment.
Jackie: Yeah, a lot of people getting mail right now is like, 10 weeks.
Lindsay: Yeah. And most people actually were willing to wait. They didn't need it immediately or something like that.
Jackie: What led you, I know you said after having twins kind of led you to write a book like this, but was it always your dream to be an author or was this something that came when you had kids?
Lindsay: I think always loved the idea of it, and I always imagined it could be something I would love to pursue and I never had the right moment or, you know, whether it's skills or, you know, what stars aligned for it to happen. I think I've always loved the idea of pursuing some, you know, something in writing and publishing. And then when this came and when the vision for the book, you know, really took over, I thought this is the right moment for me. And I think having, I'm a business developer at the university, so I work in startups and in the entrepreneurial space, and I think some of my skills were also, they aligned well, with the timing for the creative vision.
Jackie: And also that helped you afterwards, you already know what to do afterwards on building the business from the ground up.
Lindsay: Absolutely.
Jackie: From getting, not publisher, but to get the books produced where to send it and everything.
Lindsay: Yeah. The, the business end of it was a lot less intimidating for me, I think, than a lot of people venturing into publishing. Um, I had to learn more about the, the world of publishing and producing a good product, uh, early in the process. But now we're shifting into, you know, more my wheelhouse.
Jackie: This is more of like something that's just automatic for you. It's like, you don't even have to think about it. You already know what to do. You don't have to google.
Lindsay: Yeah, well, I'm still learning lots, absolutely learning lots about marketing. And you know, right now I'm in Amazon figuring that all out, how to use that universe.
Jackie: Amazon's a whole new world, a whole new education, because it's, it's different than physical books.
Lindsay: Yeah. And I think also because it's not, I mean, it's absolutely a platform I want to use to bring this message out, but I'm really excited about the opportunity of working with independent shops and small bookstores.
So the pandemic again is affecting the timelines. And I think people buying products at the moment is slowed because people are shopping less on foot. So I'm reaching out a lot to subscription services and, you know, companies that are doing online shopping.
Jackie: Yeah. Subscriptions, definitely, because there's a lot of book subscriptions there that you can probably put your like, "oh, next month, you know, in April, can you put this book into that subscription box" or something like that?
Lindsay: Yeah. So I'm shifting that at the moment. My first priority and goal was getting all the books that have been purchased to date out and I'm there. And then now shifting into making them available in the right places.
Jackie: That's good that you had the background for that. And now it's just getting the books out and hopefully learning more of Amazon.
Tell the audience where your rating on Amazon is. I know we spoke about it. You said that before we started this podcast, that your book was rated on Amazon.
Lindsay: Oh, it was, um, well, I mean, people can certainly go check it out. I have currently have the ebook available. That was up quite quickly. And then my, yeah, it's now listed on Amazon, is a big deal. I'm sure people have no idea how, all the hoops you have to jump through. And that even in every country, Amazon has a whole different setup. So I'm, I'm in amazon.com in the U.S. and it's available, people can buy it. And then, now over the next day or so, I'm just ironing out some kinks with Canada, and then I'm just distributing myself here in Europe. So I have the pieces in place and now I'm just coordinating all of the movement.
Jackie: I dunno how you're doing it.
Dave: When is the next one coming?
Lindsay: I have some ideas mapped out. It is absolutely addictive. I think a lot of people say this once you've done it once and you realize how exciting it can be. And I won't have the same learning curve the second time around. So I would love to do another one this year.
Jackie: Do you have a story in your mind of what you're going to write?
Lindsay: I'm... I mean, one big idea that I'd really love to run with is about, it's about nature-based play here in Denmark. So you know, how important nature-based play and using the natural environment is in childhood and how it can help kids. Sort of like the teaser, I guess, of the next idea that I have written
Jackie: That's really good because a lot of people outside of Denmark say, "oh, Denmark's known for children playing outside in nature, getting muddy, getting dirty" is like the thing that kids do here and I love that my, my daughter is doing and my son does it too, but he just automatically falls in puddles. He just, he walks, but he just has so much clothes on and he just falls into puddles.
Lindsay: I think, I think in, um, I mean in Canada, obviously nature is very important, but the way it's so embedded in the daycare systems here and in the education, I just really, really appreciate it. And I almost, I mean, when you hear it's, it's a little bit of a novelty that people are excited about and realize how important it is, but then you look at Denmark, it's such a great example of how it can be actually built into the curriculum and into their learning and education. I think it's really wonderful. So I would love to have that flavor in the next book, which of course would be beyond the baby days.
Jackie: This is the next step after baby days is when your kids hit daycare days.
Lindsay: I imagine, I imagine I'll still be focused on preschool, but just doesn't have, you know, kind of following where my family's at and where our priorities are.
Jackie: And that's great that you're kind of creating books on where you're at right now in your life. You know, your kids, you're in the baby days now and in what would the next one be? Toddler days?
Lindsay: No spoilers. Yeah.
Dave: I'm guessing, I'm guessing in 14 years you are going to be into horror.
Lindsay: Maybe.
Jackie: Drama queen days.
Lindsay: With teenage girls, wish me luck.
Jackie: I don't like looking that far ahead. Cause I have a four year old girl. You have an older girl too. And sometimes the attitude, I'm like, "are you a little teenager"? I was like, "this is starting a little too early".
Lindsay: Have you seen the eye roll yet? I mean, to watch a six-year-old girl roll her eyes. It's incredible.
Jackie: She hasn't done that yet. I'm not. Oh, no. It's just the talking back right now. Yeah. The talking back and not listening, but seeing what I do when she doesn't listen, she's like in the testing phase.
Lindsay: The other thing that's also horrifying is when they do something that, you know, they picked up from you. Like the one, the one that kills me, are ultimatums and my son has started doing it. Rather than saying, "I want this", they say "you have to do this or this. That's it". And I know that it's because I, you know, you're trying to teach natural consequences of, you know, you have to get ready for bed now, or we won't have time for stories. It's a very, like, logical thing. And they're like, "let me watch TV or give me that snack I want". And you're like, well, "no, it's not linked and you don't get to make ultimatums, but I appreciate that you're learning here".
Jackie: My daughter did that to me this morning, but not to me, but to her little brother, it's like "Valentin, you do this or you do that". And I looked at her, I was like, "oh my gosh, she's getting that from me. She's getting it from me".
Dave: So this is not something exclusive to marriage.
Jackie: No.
Lindsay: They're watching.
Jackie: Yeah. They're watching and listening and they're picking it up to like, "if mommy's doing it, I can do it to my little brother".
Lindsay: Yeah. And, and this like, power struggle. I'm, I mean, I'm, I am learning a lot as we go along because you do see the older ones, you know, exerting the power on the next one because mommy and daddy are in control of me. So that means I'm in control of you. And I promise the sibling does not appreciate it.
Jackie: No. It becomes fights.
Lindsay: Very quickly.
Jackie: It definitely becomes fights with my, and I have a very big gap, not big gap, like three years gap for my daughter and my son. And I thought, you know, my son could at least be three or two where that starts happening. It's like, now it's like, now that my son's very hard headed and, he wants, whatever he wants, sister already has and he'll take it. And it's like vice versa. It's like, it's a, you know, a wrapper I was like, why are you guys fighting over a wrapper? There's like tons over there that you guys, you know, left. It's like, but they have fight over for that one thing. So how do you handle that? They want one thing.
Lindsay: Yeah, I haven't seen that they all four want the same thing that often, I'm just thinking we have some of this, tell them to move less. So like the, not the furniture, but it's like this really hard foam that they use for gross motor skill development. And sometimes they'll fight over one that's like rocking or, you know, like a Seesaw or something like that. But what we try and enforce is just, if you can't, we try and give them a chance. "Listen, guys, you need to figure this out". Does one get it first, you give them some ideas. If it's still going sideways and we say, listen, "it's going to disappear and nobody gets it, like, figure it out or it's going away".
Jackie: That's what I do. I was like, "if you want that one exchange it", you gotta take turns. It's like, "if you want a toy that he's playing with, just don't take it. Ask him if he wants another toy", like, switch it out. Like don't just take it and make him cry and then laugh at him. It doesn't work. It doesn't work that way.
Dave: If you don't want your brother to go to McDonald's, tell him it's closed.
Jackie: That's true.
If people want to buy this book, where can people buy your book, future books? There's a 'future books'!
Lindsay: Yeah. I should ask, what day will the podcast be released. As of today, books are available on amazon.com in the U.S. And, I hope within a couple of days, in Canada as well. I think here in Europe, or honestly, even in North America, the best place to support any artist or small business is to buy from their website. So if you're willing to purchase there, it normally is better for them. There's less fees than there are with working through a big platform like Amazon. Of course, some people prefer if they have all their information already uploaded there, it's easier and faster. And that's why people make it available on those big platforms. But we'll include my website I know. So people can check me out and I mean, all of the work I do, publishing or creating podcasts are available there if you want to learn more. But me...
Jackie: You did a whole two weeks of, also marketing, doing podcasts, and doing lives. So...
Lindsay: Yeah, that was the virtual book tour I finished a couple weeks ago.
Jackie: How did, how was that? How was that going? And did that build more awareness for the book?
Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely. It was, I mean, doing the virtual book tour was kind of two-fold, I'd originally intended it to be aligned with when my books would be available, but of course sales aren't the main goal. The main goal is about getting the message out and, you know, increasing awareness and also building credibility for the book.
So I can say what I believed and what motivated me to write the book. So I had a couple author interviews in there, but I think the most valuable piece were actually the third-party reviews of the book, so people I sent a copy to for an honest review, I didn't pay them. But they were, you know, bookstagramers or people who see a lot of children's books and were able to critically evaluate it and have an opinion on the quality of the product from a, you know, a third party, somebody who's not biased and not motivated to say anything good about it unless they want to.
So I think that was really great, to have people create some content and generate reviews that can live, you know, and be available online for people to see and read and get an opinion of the book from someone who's not invested.
Jackie: That's really good that you're, you know, putting it out there and getting people's opinion and getting it known. And it's not just, to you, sales is not important. It's more of people to get to know you and why you created it. And then you as an author putting yourself out there.
Lindsay: Yeah, of course. I want people to gift the book and to have it in, you know, to receive the message. But I think it's really important for credibility, for me as an author and for the product that I created, that people can get some reviews. The same way on Amazon, it's important you have reviews there that people can read and see what other people thought of it.
Jackie: That's really good. And then I know there are some listeners out there that ordered the book, and if you haven't reviewed, please review the book on Amazon. And if you get more and more reviews, does that give you, do you get benefits for how many reviews, or...
Lindsay: I mean, the main benefit is that it, again, it's a credibility thing that I think people can read more, you know, what other customers thought of the book and they can see, "is this a good product?" Based on how many stars you have. I do know that if you go and check the book out on Amazon, it helps with the algorithm. And I don't know how interesting that is for listeners, but it's essentially the way that Amazon prioritizes your book in different categories and populates, you know, that product when people search things. So when you search new baby board book, for example, how likely is it that my book will be shown to a potential customer? So reviews helped with that and you know, how many page views and purchases through the platform happen also help in that monster machine calculation.
Jackie: And Amazon is huge. Billions of stuff on there. So you are competing with so many books and other things too in general.
Lindsay: I mean, if you would imagine this as a baby shower gift, which is what a lot of people telling me, they can imagine giving it for. I mean, you're competing with everything that, you know, diaper bags to monitors, to books, to all. Yeah. There's lots of things.
Jackie: Yeah. For any of the listeners out there aspiring to be authors or, you know, want to do something during their maternity leave, because they are feeling down and feeling lost. And a lot of international parents, they kind of lose themselves when they move abroad because you kind of, you change when you move abroad.
You're not the same person for me, how I would be in Los Angeles versus here in Denmark would be two different people. Maybe you, living in Canada, here in Denmark, is two different people. What would you give tips to moms out there that, that was in the same place as you or aspiring to be an author?
Lindsay: Whether it's a, I think it's almost the same answer, whether it's about, you know, losing yourself and moving abroad or whether it's in motherhood. I think you do change and evolve. And for me it really was rewarding and helped me, you know, rediscover a piece of myself and my creativity by pursuing this project. So, I mean, it meant giving up some time on the couch, for example, but I never noticed that I made that trade. I think if you can find something that really lights you up and really feels important, then follow that.
And even though I didn't necessarily have all the skills I needed from the day I decided I wanted to do it. I just allowed myself to explore it. So explore the idea or the pursuit and see if there's a way to find some time, you know, something as simple as listening to a self-publishing podcast in the background while I went for a walk with my girls to the store, that is time that I was able to use to pursue that dream in a way without interrupting our flow of the day or compromising. You know how good of a mom I might be in a moment. And I think it was really, it feels very fulfilling that I did this for myself, but also for, you know, the community of mothers that I care about.
So I would, I would encourage people to explore it and to, you know, to build some space in your life for your own ventures.
Jackie: Did you know anything about publishing before you did this project?
Lindsay: I mean, no. I knew the business pieces from a general business or a start-up perspective, but no.
Jackie: So you learned all this by a podcast or just Googling or just learning and watching probably, not tutorials, but how did you learn to self publish?
Lindsay: I mean, I'd say that some of the key resources I used were in Facebook groups. So using search functions in Facebook groups is really helpful. Find a space where people are learning the same thing that you want to learn and find a few people that you respect and think have done a good job producing a similar kind of product. In my case, it was a book or who have self published, and see what you can learn from them. I did listen to podcasts because that was a media that I could easily use when my hands were so busy. Um, so, you know, making dinner, for example. Find creative ways to work and learn in the environment you're in.
Jackie: Okay. That's really good advice for not just publishing a book, but in general, if you want to start a business or a startup or anything that you're passionate about.
We're almost done here. Dave is waving at me saying it's five minutes. So I want the people to know where to reach you, where to buy your book, social media, I know it's super important right now. Where can you find you and follow your journey on writing this another book, hopefully, and, where to buy the book?
Lindsay: I would probably direct everybody to my website, so we'll include it, but it's www.lindsaykmadsen.com And if you want to follow me on socials, probably Instagram is where I'm most active. I do have a Facebook page where I have all the information as well. But and we'll include that, I guess.
Jackie: Yeah. Well, I have all the links to your Instagram, to where the, the book is, where they can buy the book on your website. Cause it seems like it's faster and less obstacles and you also get the traffic and awareness for it. And also people can share from there, right?
Lindsay: Yeah, or contact me directly. It's, I think it's always nice to see, a creator's space and my website is that.
Jackie: Yeah. And also if, you know, any little cafes out there that are, you know, want books or a subscription that wants to have, uh, your book, they can also contact you through the website.
Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely. I'm starting to, well, I've made some of my first wholesale deals as well. So for people who buy multiple copies of the book, it's also a better price than what you might buy one at a time.
Jackie: Yeah, that's really great. I know this is like an off key question, but do you plan to stop working full-time and do this, pursue this...
Lindsay: Not at the moment. I'm scheduled to go back to work. I really love my job as a business developer. So at the moment, this is kind of just a personal pursuit I'm doing for fun and for business on the side, because it feels important, but. I do really like my job as well.
Jackie: So you get both worlds, so this is just more for fun and, okay.
Well thank you for being part of my podcast and this radio show, and also updating us on what is going on with the book and how it's going, also with you and your family.
So thank you so much for being here. Any last words to the audience or the listeners?
Lindsay: No, just, um, I think follow your great ideas.
Jackie: Yes. Follow your great ideas. There's lots of them. So even if you have kids or anything, there's always something to do. And it's really great to do something you love for yourself, not just the family, but for yourself to grow as a person.
Well, that is a wrap for today. Thank you again, Lindsay. And I guess, um, Anyone that wants to connect with Lindsay, just go on my website and you'll see all her links. Until next time everyone. Bye .
